Critiquing of photographs here and in the Talk/No Talk forum

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rbsinto.nikonhistorical...	Critiquing of photographs here and in the Talk/No Talk forum		Lead	[-]
Posts: 90 11/24/07 17:25:37	Tags : None My question applies equally to this particular Forum as well as the Talk/No Talk Forum, and while I shall try to be as diplomatic as possible, I apologize in advance if my comments ruffle anyone's feathers, as that is not my purpose. Is it your intent Kiu, or the intention of the posters to have their shots constructively critiqued in these two fora, or are they simply being posted to be commented on with respect to the lens and/or camera used, but without any sort of comments with respect to exposure, composition and so on? I think most of the posters here probably know my feelings on collecting gear for its own sake as opposed to using gear as tools to take photos. I consider myself to be a photographer who shoots with Nikon equipment as opposed to being a "Nikonian" or "Prongster" or whatever label those who collect first and shoot second deem to apply to themselves. Additionally, I am an accredited judge here in Toronto who visits other camera clubs in the city and surrounding area and judges various showings and competitions, and so when I see images my first inclination is to view them with respect to composition, exposure, depth of field, sharpness, subject matter and so on, and frankly what lens or camera the image was taken with is for me, really of no interest. I'm a straight-shooter and while I'd never be cruel or insensitive with a critique, I really don't want to make critical comments if they will be not taken in the spirit in which they were intended, or worse, cause animosity and problems with other posters. Thus I'd like to hear what you, Kiu, and others feel about this, so I can comment or not, accordingly. Thoughts? Anyone? Last Edited By: rbsinto 11/24/07 21:42:46. Edited 3 times.
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NIKON KIU	Comment for sure	#1	[url]	[-]
Posts: 246 11/24/07 17:45:47	I say, definitely comment, I like to have discussions on photos, especially on the ones I take. Words/No Words forum traditionally means the pictures do the talking, or may be not? I am personnaly pretty bad at recording exposure data, I almost never do it, however, I do remember the type of film I use and the camera and lens, at least I try to remember! That is the reason that you see camera information under my pictures, as they say, to each his own, sooo, anyone who does record their exposure info. should feel free to list it for reference purposes. I like to add, I do appreciate Robert bringing up this question and I appreciate all that have contributed by posting pictures, I think it's the best forum around here. Keep it up people. Robert, you may become the House Critique, who's better than a praticing judge?...what do you say? Now, lets hear more opinions regarding this subject. Kiu
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VinceC.nikonhistorical...		#2	[url]	[-]
Posts: 57 11/24/07 18:11:15	>> am personnaly pretty bad at recording exposure data<< I have enough trouble remembering which lens I even used, and I often can't tell which lens shot which photo. I'm shooting meterless, so I can usually take an educated guess at my exposure data. But I'd be hard pressed.
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LovemyNikons	Mr	#3	[url]	[-]
Posts: 15 11/24/07 18:52:44	For me personally, I love critiques of my photos. Several times, I've had shots that I loved, critiqued and serious flaws pointed out that I simply had not seen due to my being enraptured with what I had gotten. ( A shadow here, a telephone line there) Of course, the problem is that it is so subjective. I. e., the famous shot by Henri Cartier-Bresson of the man jumping the puddle. Often called the greatest photo of all time. I don't get it. It's blurry and limited DOF and an ordinary subject. Frankly, to me it's c--p, that has been interpeted and elevated by artistic snobs. They see symbolism in the typically Middle-European name on the wall and the broken hoops on the ground. Really! Do you really think he worked to capture that symbolism? But, ah well, that's just the cynical ME, coming out. The secret for me, is to listen to the critism, but not necessarily to accept it as valid.
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rbsinto.nikonhistorical...		#4	[url]	[-]
Posts: 90 11/24/07 21:11:05	Kiu, Thanks, but no thanks. I would never accept the post of House Critic because first, as Lovemy Nikons has pointed out, impressions of any artform are to a great extent extremely subjective, and thus who am I to set myself up as the Final Authority on what is good, bad or indifferent. While I may have more experience at this sort of thing than many of the others who post here, that is no reason to suppose that everything I say is correct. Besides, I have neither the time or interest in commenting on every image posted, something the House Critic would of necessity have to do. My reason for asking the original question was merely to get a feel for what the other posters here expect and are or are not willing to accept in terms of comments and criticism. Apparently, those who have replied think its OK, so I'll comment on those images that interest me, and I hope that others will do the same. LovemyNikons, I agree with you. One should always listen to constructive criticism of ones work, but then make up one's own mind as to its validity.
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VinceC.nikonhistorical...		#5	[url]	[-]
Posts: 57 11/25/07 03:13:55	Words/No Words should remain without critique. This is a gear forum. Certainly people like Nkon because its consistency of quality makes Nikons dependable tools for good photography. But I like that this is a gear forum. When I can figure out which lens took which photo, I prefer to post my photos by lens. Among other things, I like to show that 50-year-old lenses are capable of taking the kinds of photos I like to take -- a mixture of portraiture and action. I gravitated toward rangefinders a couple of decades ago as a reaction to the growing weight and feature freak-out of the topline SLRs like the Nikon F4. As noted above, photo critiques can be very subjective. In my experience, an effective way to improve photography is to look at and discuss the best images. In writing, we can learn a little by having our works critiqued. But we can learn more by reading the best authors and discussing what they did that worked (and what didn't work ... Shakespeare's infrequent depictions of pre-teen children are nearly always clumsy, wooden and artless -- see Macbeth or the young Tower princes in Richard III). LovemyNikons may not appreciate the Cartier-Bresson image, but we've all seen it and can immediately understand what he's talking about, so his discussion was particularly effective. Eddie Adams' photo of the Vietnamese being shot in the head has compositional and technical flaws, not least being someone's thumbprint on the negative in the sky. Not sure any of that detracts from the image's power. W. Eugene Smith's "Walk in Paradise Garden" can seem trite and contrived unless you know his body of work and the backstory of it being his first photograph of his children while recuperating from a World War II wound to his hands. Photographs have to be understood in their context.
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rbsinto.nikonhistorical...		#6	[url]	[-]
Posts: 90 11/25/07 14:05:58	Vince, If you are correct that this is a gear site, (and believe me when I say that it is my fervent hope that you are wrong) then I'll simply post shots and won't bother commenting on or critiquing images that others post.
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NIKON KIU		#7	[url]	[-]
Posts: 246 11/25/07 14:56:51	It's hard to say what this message board is! And that's coming from the founder!! First, I think it's too early to say which direction the board is going, for now, seems like the emphasis on posting pictures is more than talking gear. Second, talking gear could be consistant with taking pictures. Jon R. just posted a question regarding using a full frame fish-eye on a Digital Nikon...to me it's not gear talk but directly related to taking pictures too. Third, we all know message boards are direct result of their contributors, this one is no exception, it WILL be what me make it to be. I like to hear further comments. Kiu
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LovemyNikons		#8	[url]	[-]
Posts: 15 11/25/07 21:52:08	VinceC, A very valid point that I overlooked, (Should I say,"in my opinion?" ). The context that the photo was take in is certainly an important factor. Eddie Adams shot, Capa's or D.D. Duncans shots, or for that matter, any of the news/war photogs shots, have to be viewed in a different light due the difficulty and danger involved. I can admire them for the difficulty or the capturing of the moment in time, and yet......not appreciate the technical aspects. ESPECIALY if it is a problem with the equipment being used. And, that brings me to an area of disagreement,... with the "gear forum" part. There are lots of headings. And, for all aspects of shooting with Nikons. If one doesn't like the photos and only likes to read about the equipment and aspect thereof. Go for it and ignore the photo areas. There should be room for us all. THAT is what I love about this particular forum. Bill PS. Cartier-Bresson was shooting with an early LTM Leica 35mm. Not exactly a Brownie box.
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VinceC.nikonhistorical...		#9	[url]	[-]
Posts: 57 11/26/07 02:36:10	Rather than "gear forum" I probably should have more accurately said that this is a "tool" forum. We've found that Nikon gives us the tools we need to take good photographs. One of the reasons I'm rather fond of Nikon rangefinders is that development effectivley stopped 50 years ago. There's no chasing after the latest lens or the latest electronic improvement. It's a camera I know well, with capable lenses I know well, immune from gear-driven matters because once you've put together the system, there are no new lenses to pine for. And no excuse for poor photos, other than your own abilities. In the past, I used the cameras for photojournalism. Today I use them to document my family. But I think everyone has their own approach to Nikons.
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nikon61352		#10	[url]	[-]
Posts: 128 12/01/07 05:02:01	Most other forums run a W/NW forum as a string of images with a common theme, and a minimum of commentary. I thought the interesting twist on this forum would be to post sample images based on lens used. A mix of imagery to display how the equipment is used on what is a gear-oriented forum. Many sites also have a forum for users posting images for critique. The poster is looking for feedback on their image, good or bad. Last Edited By: nikon61352 12/06/07 21:45:05. Edited 1 time.
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